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Sublime378
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PostSubject: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 9th 2010, 11:40 pm

I'm really really thining about getting a vortec superchager. I planned on getting the slp cat back system with some headers on top of the charger but I don't know I never know what to do
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 10th 2010, 8:03 am

I'm sure Tom (Illinois Chaos) can give you a few pointers.

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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 10th 2010, 8:12 am

If you still have the 5.7 in there, I'd get a bigger engine before I went blown. Just my opinion.
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cjresto
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 10th 2010, 8:51 am

Vortec is supose to have a very good tune. With forced induction you have to have a great tune on a stock lower end other wise you will run into problems. Forged lower end is the way to go.
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Bob_Kurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 13th 2010, 1:46 pm

give us a call.. we did Toms supercharger and can work with you to hopefully fit your budget..
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Illinois Chaos
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 13th 2010, 2:01 pm

Sublime378 wrote:
I'm really really thining about getting a vortec superchager. I planned on getting the slp cat back system with some headers on top of the charger but I don't know I never know what to do

Hey John, I like that idea. I wish I could have brought my car by, when I picked up the drag radials. I'm in your neck of the woods when I need parts for the bus. so if you want to get a demo, just let me know. Since I know you hit Byron often, you should check Bob's shop out sometime when your over that way.
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Sublime378
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 13th 2010, 7:18 pm

hey Tom hey what do you all got done to your engine. I'm trying to go more show then go I don't want to go crazy sick but I do like the look of the supercharger I just think it would be cool to have the charger on the green hornet but maybe it not the right time
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Sublime378
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 13th 2010, 7:29 pm

allright I got a real dumb question remember I know nothing about egines but I can aint a car truck plane boat what ever you want but can you convert a 5.7 to a 6.1 and if you can who can do that. I thought the only way is to swap out the motor but I'm reading alittle on it and it seems like you can but is it a bogus claim or what
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Hurst Pak
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 13th 2010, 7:38 pm

Bob_Kurgan wrote:
give us a call.. we did Toms supercharger and can work with you to hopefully fit your budget..


Did Toms??

What about Mr. Norm's tongue
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Bob_Kurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 13th 2010, 10:12 pm

Hurst Pak wrote:
Bob_Kurgan wrote:
give us a call.. we did Toms supercharger and can work with you to hopefully fit your budget..


Did Toms??

What about Mr. Norm's tongue

yes, we did Tom's..

we are 1 of 3 vortech TOP TIER installers in the state of IL.. the other 2 are Ford dealerships.
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eviltrycycle
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 13th 2010, 10:43 pm

And I think Tom is happy as a clam with his new addition to his car. Smile

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bogieboy
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 13th 2010, 11:23 pm

eviltrycycle wrote:
And I think Tom is happy as a clam with his new addition to his car. Smile

I think that goes for pretty much anyone with a S/C?
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Illinois Chaos
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 14th 2010, 7:55 am

Yeah, Bob Kurgan did my Vortech install. Sorry for the confusion on the dr's, John. I think I had a SENIOR moment there, wrong John, haha. I have it sorted out now. A Vortech blower under your hood is an addition that is both show and go, if that's what your looking for. Just order the polished one.

"Did Toms??

What about Mr. Norm's"

Paul, It's just business. Both shops are very qualified and it just comes down to a matter of the quote on the work to be done. I would trust either shop to do anything on my car. Lucky to have 2 aces just a few miles apart. It's a bit difficult for me, because I know and think highly of both as friends and professionals.
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Illinois Chaos
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 14th 2010, 8:06 am

Sublime378 wrote:
allright I got a real dumb question remember I know nothing about egines but I can aint a car truck plane boat what ever you want but can you convert a 5.7 to a 6.1 and if you can who can do that. I thought the only way is to swap out the motor but I'm reading alittle on it and it seems like you can but is it a bogus claim or what

Well John, I'm going to differ that question to Bob, if he sees it.




"hey Tom hey what do you all got done to your engine. I'm trying to go more show then go I don't want to go crazy sick but I do like the look of the supercharger I just think it would be cool to have the charger on the green hornet but maybe it not the right time"

I have a stock motor. A Vortech is safe to run in it's current configuration, on a stock motor.
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Sublime378
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 14th 2010, 12:57 pm

Thanks Tom I think I'm going to go with the supercharger I'm in talks with bob as we speak And I think I might try to get some of the vertech podercoded I know we prob can't do the blower itself but the rest I've seen done and it looks pretty good and if I do all that under my hood I think it's going to look pretty sick. Thanks agian to Tom and bob for all my questions
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Illinois Chaos
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJune 14th 2010, 1:52 pm

Sublime378 wrote:
Thanks Tom I think I'm going to go with the supercharger I'm in talks with bob as we speak And I think I might try to get some of the vertech podercoded I know we prob can't do the blower itself but the rest I've seen done and it looks pretty good and if I do all that under my hood I think it's going to look pretty sick. Thanks agian to Tom and bob for all my questions

That's great, John. Your in good hands.
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Gladius
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 4:41 pm

Are you set on a Vortech? Have you looked at the twin screw by Kenne Bell or the roots by MagnaCharger?

I was in the same boat, although I quickly decided against the Vortech in favor of a twin screw... my dilemma was going with a blower or a Hellion twin turbo setup. I opted for the Kenne Bell in the end because it looks much better on the motor for shows and cruise nights (the turbos are hidden pretty much) and I prefer the instant kick in the pants boost. I don't want to wait for a turbo to spool up or a centrifugal supercharger to gradually build boost. The twin screw comes on strong at around 2k rpm and produces a super flat torque curve from that point on through the rev range - which is what really gives you that rush of speed out of the gates.

With that being said, the Vortechs produce lots of power and at the strip they win lots of races. They just don't have the same seat of the pants low end burst of power for passing like a twin screw or roots.

Oh, and I opted against the roots S/C in favor of the twin screw so when I build that 426 stroker in the not too distant future I can run 20lbs of boost if I get the urge. Smile

But if you go Vortech, you'll love it too. They have a great product for sure.
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RT!st!C
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 5:29 pm

Gladius wrote:
Are you set on a Vortech? Have you looked at the twin screw by Kenne Bell or the roots by MagnaCharger?

I was in the same boat, although I quickly decided against the Vortech in favor of a twin screw... my dilemma was going with a blower or a Hellion twin turbo setup. I opted for the Kenne Bell in the end because it looks much better on the motor for shows and cruise nights (the turbos are hidden pretty much) and I prefer the instant kick in the pants boost. I don't want to wait for a turbo to spool up or a centrifugal supercharger to gradually build boost. The twin screw comes on strong at around 2k rpm and produces a super flat torque curve from that point on through the rev range - which is what really gives you that rush of speed out of the gates.

With that being said, the Vortechs produce lots of power and at the strip they win lots of races. They just don't have the same seat of the pants low end burst of power for passing like a twin screw or roots.

Oh, and I opted against the roots S/C in favor of the twin screw so when I build that 426 stroker in the not too distant future I can run 20lbs of boost if I get the urge. Smile

But if you go Vortech, you'll love it too. They have a great product for sure.

so what did that run ya all said and done if u dont mind me asking?
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Gladius
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 5:38 pm

I had Mr. Norms do the install, so with the 2.8LC Kenne Bell (liquid cooled) satin black installed with his WOT box (regulates boost and is adjustable) the whole thing cost me $9,200. I also had a PCV oil recycling system installed with was $139 I think. It keeps me from needing a catch can.

The blower itself was $7299. The install was $1200 of the total cost.
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RT!st!C
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 5:42 pm

thanks thats not bad for the install......how many horses to the wheels?
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Illinois Chaos
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 7:23 pm

Gladius wrote:
Are you set on a Vortech? Have you looked at the twin screw by Kenne Bell or the roots by MagnaCharger?

I was in the same boat, although I quickly decided against the Vortech in favor of a twin screw... my dilemma was going with a blower or a Hellion twin turbo setup. I opted for the Kenne Bell in the end because it looks much better on the motor for shows and cruise nights (the turbos are hidden pretty much) and I prefer the instant kick in the pants boost. I don't want to wait for a turbo to spool up or a centrifugal supercharger to gradually build boost. The twin screw comes on strong at around 2k rpm and produces a super flat torque curve from that point on through the rev range - which is what really gives you that rush of speed out of the gates.

With that being said, the Vortechs produce lots of power and at the strip they win lots of races. They just don't have the same seat of the pants low end burst of power for passing like a twin screw or roots.

Oh, and I opted against the roots S/C in favor of the twin screw so when I build that 426 stroker in the not too distant future I can run 20lbs of boost if I get the urge. Smile

But if you go Vortech, you'll love it too. They have a great product for sure.



The Kenne Bell is a great system and was my second choice. I don't know who told you that centris spool up gradually. I won't let anyone drive my car because if they hit the skinny pedal just a little too hard from a stop sign it wants to eat the street. I chose the Vortech after researching blowers for a year. It builds the most hp per lb. of boost than any other blower on the market. I'm running a 91 tune on 93 oct and making 500rwhp now that's just as safe as you can get on 6lbs of boost.
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Gladius
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 9:17 pm

Illinois Chaos wrote:

The Kenne Bell is a great system and was my second choice.
Yup, as is the Vortech, ProCharger, MagnaCharger, etc. They all have their selling points. They appeal to different people for different reasons.

Quote :
I don't know who told you that centris spool up gradually. I won't let anyone drive my car because if they hit the skinny pedal just a little too hard from a stop sign it wants to eat the street.
No one told me, I've driven them. I guess you need to drive a twin screw or roots car to realize the vast difference in power delivery. If you think your Vortech is jumpy, you simply won't believe the throttle response on a Kenne Bell or MagnaCharger. Centrifugal blowers do build boost more gradually than screws or roots, that's a pretty well known fact. A screw or roots are positive displacement blowers so they are in boost practically off idle. Centrifugal blowers aren't positive displacement, and do in fact build boost in a more linear fashion which is a positive attribute for several applications as you can read below.

http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_type_supercharger

From the Wiki page:
Quote :
Due to its design and lack of low-RPM boost it is often employed on near-standard compression engines. This means that it can facilitate airflow at higher engine RPMs, when most motors tend to have poor volumetric efficiency, without substantially increasing cylinder pressures at low- to mid-RPM operation, causing knock. This principle makes this type of supercharger ideally fit for a "bolt-on" type power adder, with no modification of the pistons and/or compression ratio necessary. Since gasoline must mix with air in a fairly narrow ratio to achieve combustion, the fact that centrifugals do not add much air at low and mid-range RPM's means fuel mileage is near-stock in the cruise RPM range. They appear to be most popular with cars that have a sufficiently large engine to provide adequate acceleration from a standing start without boost, while at the same time avoiding wheelspin. Then, the engine encounters breathing limitations in the mid-RPM range, often because it may only use two valves per cylinder. Centrifugals are also popular in places where the power-adder must be removed for frequent government engine inspections, as the exhaust system is unaffected (as it would be with a turbocharger).

Compared to a turbocharger (which uses an almost identical compressor design, but instead is powered by exhaust gasses), a turbo charger has the benefit of being able to reach peak boost earlier in the RPM range. A turbocharger will maintain the desired boost pressure by leaking excess gasses using a Wastegate, to keep the boost pressure at the desired level and also allow the engine to continue accelerating. A centrifugal supercharger does not have the ability to do this, so it will always make peak boost at the engine's own peak RPM (provided that the engine's peak RPM isn't beyond the peak efficiency of the compressor). The flaw in this application is that the engine will not have the same torque at lower RPM, using a centrifugal supercharger.

I know you're proud of your Vortech and you should be, it's a great system that wins many races. But the links above pretty accuracy explain the differences.

Quote :
I chose the Vortech after researching blowers for a year. It builds the most hp per lb. of boost than any other blower on the market. I'm running a 91 tune on 93 oct and making 500rwhp now that's just as safe as you can get on 6lbs of boost.
You do realize one dyno will tell you 500hp and another will tell you 480hp, right? There's not a defacto standard in dyno's, some are more conservative than others especially among different brands. It's a great way to base line a motor then measure improvements and to tune a build, but I wouldn't take their horse power results too literally.

Here's some info from a guy that builds dyno's.

Quote :
"Accuracy", for many reasons, is a very relative term as far as dyno's go. Just how accurate is anyone's dyno? Take 2 motors, test them on 2 different dynos, one comes out at 100hp, the other comes out at 110hp, but they run the same lap times. Which dyno is "accurate"? Which one is giving you the correct numbers? Horsepower is simply a calculated number. Dyno 10 engines on the same dyno at 100HP, put them all in the same bike one at a time, and they all run the exact same lap times. Is the dyno accurate? No, the dyno is however "repeatable". "Repeatability" is what you want in a dyno, test the same engine time after time and get the same results. Take one of the 10 engines from above, change a pipe or a cam so you get 5% more power, run it against all the others again. It runs 5% faster, you re-dyno it and it still says 5% better, now you have an "accurate" and more importantly, a "repeatable" dyno. A couple hints: Always start your tests at the same engine temps and settings. Pay close attention to weather conditions. Get yourself a good barometer, thermometer, and humidity gauge, and enter the conditions into the program each time you make a run.

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Bob_Kurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 9:37 pm

my vortech shows 24psi when i mat it and 24psi when i shift Smile
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Illinois Chaos
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 9:39 pm

Yeah, I'm not going to start a war of the blowers.
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Gladius
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PostSubject: Re: Superchargers   Superchargers I_icon_minitimeJuly 15th 2010, 9:40 pm

Yeah, let's not. There're never pretty or fun and that certainly wasn't my intent.

Smile
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